Welcome Caribbean Ribbons episode 114. I have on show, William Vilright. You may all have seen articles where he attack the corruption of food industry and of agriculture today. He is gentleman farmer, writer on Jeffersonian agrarian republicanism. I hope I do not misrepresent you, William Vilright. Welcome to the show. Yes. Thank you, Bap. Thank you for having me on the show. Salud. It's an honor, a dream come true to be on the show. I also have to thank you publicly to all your listeners so they can hear that for your hospitality here in the Club Tropicale Excelente. It's very wonderful. Thank you also for the broad array of carnal delights that you delivered to my room last night. I did not partake in any of them, but I did behold them. Maybe visually I partook them.

Yes, I tried to send four-foot-seven Guatemalan hooker to his room, but he resisted, just like St. Francis of Assisi, he meant of great restraint. But please do not joke about Club Tropical Excellent, this is something that I am serious about happening in the future. We require 50 to 100 million dollars for submarine base, but that's for another time. There are big disturbances in the world today. You are a farmer yourself. You became a farmer, a practicing farmer, William Villarites, and a writer and a thinker on such issues. And now you see in Dutch farmers, they have risen up, they are trying to, I don't know if to overthrow Holland government, but certainly to turn back some regulations against them. They are joined by farmers in Spain now and Germany, and there are disturbances.

People see what happened in Sri Lanka because of agricultural regulations in that country. Then others say there will be food shortages in the coming year. What is going on? What's your opinion about everyone thinking about this now? What's your opinion on this? Yes. Well, the Dutch... Let's start. three different things so I'll take them in order. The Dutch thing is very interesting you know it's people we always hear on our side of Twitter etc are talking about cold civil war this you know cold cold war that you know because I guess you know there's no one who's no one man enough to have a hot war you know but now now you know I think we saw a little bit with the Canadian truckers last winter and now a similar dynamic with the Dutch farmers

and I think it's just a classic matter of the regime, whatever you want to call it, the EU Dutch government, liberal government, pro-immigration people, pushing things just little by little a little bit further. They try and do the frog in boiling water technique where they just heat it up gradually, but I think a reason for optimism is people like farmers, people like truckers and other such people, I think they do have a very strong sense of where exactly the limit is and it's rather far along on the scale, but for instance with these Dutch farmers, you know, the obvious strategy and the obvious what they're doing is trying to seize land. I mean, it's pretty clear that that's... You're saying the EU, the EU government trying to seize land, they're using this excuse about

nitrogen in soil, am I misunderstanding that? I don't know. Yes, I think that's clearly what's going on and, you know, I just watched a video of a Dutch farmer who spoke good English yesterday saying, yeah, you know, this is all completely fake. You know, nitrogen, just so I'm sure you know this, Bap, but for people who don't know, nitrogen is, you know, the other than carbon itself, the number one limiting carbon and water, it is the number one limiting agricultural input. In other words, it's the thing that you need most after just soil and water themselves in order to grow anything. And it can be problematic I want to interrupt you for a moment because it brings something to mind. I know you are familiar with Argentina and this country.

Now, Argentinian beef is world famous and the reason is, first of all, well, we can get into this later when we talk about your farming practices, but actually it come to mind now. I hope you don't mind I interrupt you. Of course not. The reason Argentinian beef is good, they have so much pasture land, land, so the cows do not need to move too much, so they do not develop hard muscle sinew and so forth. Second, the soil has extreme high natural nitrogen content, and so Uruguayan beef also gets exported all over the world, but Uruguayan beef will not have the intense beef flavor of Argentinian beef. Sorry, interrupt. Please continue. You were saying about the Dutch. No. Okay. Yes. Well, just quickly about what you just said.

I think, yeah, just, you know, the right-wing bodybuilders listening will know that nitrogen is the building block or the ever-present element in all amino acids. And so nitrogen is the building block of all proteins. So when we get protein from beef, this is coming from nitrogen-rich soils that are in which the grasses and clovers, legumes, et cetera, are growing, the cows are grazing on, et cetera. And if you have grain-fed beef, then it's the same thing as true. Yes. And when I go into public bathroom with whip it with whipped cream can and I inhale that nitrogen, that can make me stronger also? Possibly, Bev. That is a level of esoteric knowledge that to which I as of yet do not have access. But I believe that, you know,

if you were to ask certain of the more schizoid group chats on Twitter and telegroom, you may find a more convincing and expert-driven answer than what I'm able to provide. Yes, really, am I sorry to interrupt? You were saying very interesting about the nitrogen soils, yes. Yes, so I was just going to say that when you have grain-fed beef, the protein is coming from soy virtually all the time, and that's just the same thing. It's a leguminous plant, meaning it actually takes nitrogen out of the atmosphere. You all remember this from 8th grade biology through a symbiotic relationship with bacterial nodules that grow on the roots of the leguminous plants, including soy, all like plants including you know trees and locust trees things like this do this

and that's actually how nitrogen it's so people who know about chemistry will know that nitrogen gas is most of the atmosphere is nitrogen gas 78 percent and this is this going back to the Dutch thing goes to show how ridiculous this you know blaming the problem you know blaming nitrogen thing is because 78 percent of the atmosphere is nitrogen and interestingly to show you the power of plants and the symbiotic relationship I just alluded to, the only two natural forces that can break the bond that is present in a nitrogen gas molecule, which is N2, it has a triple bond, very very strong chemical bond, are these root nodules, these bacteria living on the root nodules, and and lightning. So every time there's a lightning storm you can think it's pretty cool, especially if

you're in a agricultural area, it's it's literally raining fertility because the lightning, the energy of the lightning splits the nitrogen in the air, and then it reacts with the moisture in the rainstorm, and then that falls on the ground. So, you know, rain water has much more, you know, it's, if you can, we can get into this as we talk more about farming, but rain water is much more fertile, literally fertile than, you know, well water, pumped out of the ground or whatever. Anyway, back to the Dutch. I think, yeah, you know, it's transparent what they're doing, you know, it's a tale as old as time, you you know, this is a Henry VIII type move, you know, he stole, you know, the Catholic church owned a third of the land in England and he just said, okay, this is mine now.

So it's the same, it's the same kind of thing. And we'll see if it works out. The only difference is now they need, they need some fake excuse like nitrogen. And, and you know, so, so yes, can nitrogen cause, cause, you know, ecological problems in excess? Yes. It can cause eutrophication, is you may have heard about like algal blooms in natural waterways and ponds and even in rivers and such. These are bad for the surrounding ecology, but the solution to this problem is not to impose heavier burdens on farmers. It is to work with farmers to create better solutions and keeping in mind the fact that farmers have been shafted severely by – every once in a while the student debt issue in America comes up and the student debt thing is just in terms of the moral argument of

it is ridiculous when you think about the other sorts of debt that exist such as agricultural debt and if you're going to have a debt jubilee of some kind it makes much more sense or you're going to pick a population that deserves to have a debt jubilee then the notion that it should be like women in gender studies grad students and not farmers, A, morally, B, on the basis of what makes sense for society. This notion is crazy. So I think, is that answer about the Dutch, I can say more, but I can move on to Sri Lanka as well. Well, yes, please talk Sri Lanka because people are thinking these are connected. I don't know if they are. You see these theories now online that the true intention of the EU is to have a kind

of coruscant-type megacity in the Benelux region, essentially Belgium, Netherlands and Luxembourg to turn it into the world capital and to convert that land, the agricultural land that's in question, to convert it to a housing project, you know, all these types of Judge Dredd. I don't know if that sounds far-fetched, but there's certainly something going on worldwide now. What is this connected to Sri Lanka, you think? I don't know. I think it's two different things going on. I think Sri Lanka, they had this sort of Justin Trudeau type guy come into power. Maybe Justin Trudeau on steroids in the negative sense. in so far as, you know, he wants to bring in all of these left-wing policies, including, you know, sustainable agriculture or whatever.

So and, you know, there's a lot of kind of pie-in-the-sky type talk about how we can, you know, about how it's possible to transition very quickly and without much, you know, and a lot of just kind of, you know, transhumanist type optimism about the, you know, the laws of physics and the realities of the universe, okay? And they apply that to farming and they, you know, think that if, you know, you take a field that's been sprayed with, you know, glyphosate for the last 30 years every year and has grown nothing, you know, the soil is completely inert and if you plant, I don't know, like carrots and beets that you'll be able to feed your country like that and that's obviously insane and we need to you know we need people we need to have a sane approach and I think you know

maybe my role in the role of some of my friends is to offer that in in the longer term you know through the political system etc but you know I think that base you know I haven't read that deeply about Sri Lanka but I've seen seen seen always the plan when they say sustainable did they actually mean been turned to organic farming, because I've heard that Bhutan is the first all-organic agriculture country in the world. I don't know if that's still true or if they broke that. They can probably do it because they did not ruin their land the way you say Sri Lanka and almost all other countries have. But is that what they mean when they say sustain? Because I would like to see that, you know. Yeah, me too, me too. I mean, I think, as people have read my pieces in different publications,

I think this is the, agriculture defines the culture. And I can explain, you know, that may sound far-fetched, but I can explain, give examples of what I mean by that, but I think that we need, if we want to address cultural issues, the place to start with that is in the agriculture, obviously, for obvious direct reasons, such as diet and this type, the economy and this type of thing, but also more indirect, more spiritual reasons. But anyway, to answer your question, yes, I think that must have something to do with it. I've heard this about Bhutan. I've heard you talk about Bhutan. I don't know exactly what it means. The other thing about the word organic is just that because, at least in America, the word itself is the proprietary possession of the Department of Agriculture. Oh, yes.

There are so many loopholes. I just want to tell people, this company, Horizons, that make milk, it's organic only in name. They take every loophole they can, you know? Yes, it's oino. It's like a rhino, but organic. Everyone knows what they do with the chickens and so-called cage free. It's completely fake, completely fake. In case audience doesn't know this, you could have chickens in an industrial type enclosure and there is a door or a hatch that the chickens don't even know about, that they don't use, but just the existence of that hatch allows the producer to say it is, you know, it's cage free. So all of these FDA regulation are fake, they are meant to trick consumer and so forth. Please go on here. everything you just said is correct and as I was saying the word organic itself

if I I'm not certified organic on my farm but if I were to advertise that I am organic even if I were to say beyond organic I would be opening myself to a lawsuit from the USDA you know which is great you know not even another company it's the government itself that's that would come and this has happened to other farmers not recently but it has happened so you know and and because they own the word, they define what it means. So I think obviously a reasonable person would just use it in the literal sense, which is to say biological, as opposed to chemical, friendly to the earth, friendly to wildlife, etc. But in general these definitions become very difficult. Of course we've already mentioned the word sustainable, there's the word regenerative,

there's lots of different terms, and just simply because people lack literacy on these topics because people are so cut off and alienated from agriculture and from, you know, kind of anything, where anything comes from really, it makes it easy for, as you said, the FDA and the fraternity of the FDA and large corporations, global corporations, to trick people and put a nice cow on a green pasture on the milk bottle and have slapped the word organic on it and give them peace of mind. Meanwhile, they are becoming obese for some reason. The Sri Lanka thing, the guy was either mentally ill to think that he can take a nation of how many millions is it and to turn it overnight into organic without starvation. On the other

hand, he was either mentally ill or he was trying to curry favor with Justin Trudeau types from the international priesthood class. On the other hand, you have Russia, which has, I don't know if it's advertised that it's going to be organic, but certainly they reject GMOs, they reject all kinds of genetically modified things, and other nations ban them too. Japan bans it. I think Hungary will burn much of the EU bans it, but not all of it, I think. And I think Russia was wise to do, because when you imagine if they had not, now they could be blackmailed, they would not have their own agriculture, because the seeds come from abroad, from, you know, whoever bought Monsanto, Syngenta, whatever. But now because of these sanctions with Russia and this conflict, and now people are saying

there will be starvation or shortages next year. Have you heard anything about this? I don't know. I see people posting this sort of thing. I don't know. I think it seems, maybe the situation in Europe I'm just unfamiliar with. We've been hearing about how Germany is putting coal plants back on just to give a sense of how reliant Europe is on Ukrainian and Russian resources and, you know, Ukrainian wheat in particular. But I, you know, so it may be a different situation there. But I think, you know, in the US, obviously, we've got inflation, we've got other reasons prices are going up. But I think, and I just saw the good doctor Ben Braddock posting something about, you know, cattle auctions in Missouri, the drought, people are selling their cows, etc, etc.

But I think, on the other hand, the grain of salt is just that this is all very localized and things are different in different places and the market is so global. There's beef in Brazil, there's beef in Australia, for example. So I think there's no reason to panic just yet. But my advice to everyone always is to always, at least if you don't already grow a little bit of food, just start by growing one thing if it's intimidating to you or if you're excited about it, dive in, and if you have land or even just a windowsill, try and grow something. It'll give you a little bit of respite, of peace of mind from this whole situation, and also you'll just spiritually be brought into closer contact with the planet, with your

own human nature, and I think this is exactly the opposite of what the regime is trying to pull us towards. They're trying to pull us away from nature itself, from being human. And if we, you know, engaging with food, in particular, I think is the first place to engage with those two things, with our humanity and with the natural world. So I encourage people to find ways to do that in any way they can. Well actually, yes. This, what you write so beautifully about, and you wrote two articles I know of in IM 1776 and in American Mind, and you've had threads on the way you yourself practice agriculture, animal husbandry, and why you do it. I would like to talk to you about that because, very interesting, I thought your article in IM 1776 about ice cream was

both humorous and visionary article, ice cream nationalism, the real ice cream nationalism. Do you want to talk about that or your own practice of farming? What do you grow? You grow cow? Yes, I'm actually I saw I'm very passionate about this idea that I lay out in in in my in my article that I Won't go read if they haven't already I will link it. I will link it. Yes for sure. Yes, please I think I think so I'm I'm making moves to try and start doing some of what I was talking about the article I do it I practice those principles in different ways right as of right now. I grow grass-fed beef, grass-fed lamb. I was doing pastured pork for five, six years. I'm just doing that for myself now. I think, you know, the key to all of this is...

Let me make a bit of a more abstract philosophical point, and then I'll lead into what I want to say. Which is that just when you think about like the way agriculture is practiced right now, now. It has always made sense and behooved all farmers throughout all human history to make best use and to economize those things that can be gotten for free. And by that I mainly mean sunlight and water, rainwater. And when you think about the way American in agriculture's practice, for example, which is mostly just corn and soy rotation and cattle, continuously grazed beef cattle, which is then finished in feedlots, it's a complete, insane, and sacrilegious waste of these two freely God-given, if you want, resources. Think about the fact that for corn, They planted in, depending on where you are,

they planted in May, June, and they harvested in September, October, November. So it's, and then after that, the rest of the year, the land just lays fallow. There's nothing growing in it. There's nothing harvesting sunlight. There's nothing harvesting rainwater. Whereas if that land had plants in it, that's, even in the winter, assuming there's no snow on the ground, those, having roots in the ground, even dormant roots and you know grass stays green in the winter even if it's and so it's still anytime there's green grass exposed to sun there's photosynthesis happening or green plants and you know and do you just think about the the the wastage of of what we're of what we're what we have access to especially on this continent it's it's insane and so we need

need to start thinking about ways that we can, to start off with, make use of those resources. And so my agricultural thinking is based off of that idea. And so how do we actually not waste, if we have an acre of land, how do we photosynthesize every photon of sunlight that falls on it? And how do we make sure that plants take up every drop of rainwater that falls on it, as opposed to just running off or hitting the soil, the sunlight hitting the soil, and not actually just baking the soil and drying it up. Well, the way to do that is with perennial plants, with particularly grasses, pasture plants, and these are what grow in America, in most of America naturally anyway. And then we need to, and so how do we convert that into a harvestable yield? Well, we need to use herbivores.

And so that's cows, that's sheep, goats, buffalo, bison, whatever. You can do this with a whole series of things, but the main two would probably be cows and sheep. And the reason that I talk about ice cream is just because calorically the conversion for, you know, there's two options. If you have, say you have one sheep, that you will have 1.5 babies per year on average. So let's say she has twins. You can do two things. You can either sell those lambs or wean them after a month and start harvesting milk. Maybe if you celebrate Easter you can have the babies be born a month before Easter and then you have nice suckling lambs, I don't know. Or you can sell them to somebody else who's going to raise them for lamb, whatever. Or you can just wean them and raise them yourself for lamb.

But the point is that you get a lot more caloric output when you're milking them. And so the caloric conversion of grass to whatever kind of, whether it's meat or milk, for milk, you're just getting much more. And so that's why I think you need to return to dairy-based agriculture for dairy nationalism. Raw, grass-fed dairy is what we could revitalize the nation with, and that's why I talk about that. Yes, William, I want to discuss this in more detail. What you say about the practice of industrial agriculture in the United States, how it depletes the land, how it destroys the land, why this poses a danger, and to get more into detail about this idea of conversion into calories and so forth, and just the way you practice

agriculture, I want to talk in more detail on this, but I think we have to go to break because Brennan is with me here again, he is whining, he has prepared for me a cigar that is defective, I cannot draw smoke when I light it, so I need to go to break to beat him and perhaps later we can talk that I rent him out to you if you need farmhand. Very good. Brandon, would you like that? Very good. But let us go to Greg and we will be right back to discuss detail about the sustainable organic farming life. We will be right back. Welcome back to the show. I'm here with William Ville Wright, a thinker on agriculture and a gentleman farmer in a Jeffersonian tradition. William, welcome back to the show. We left talking about world food crisis and so forth.

Now, the agricultural system in the United States, even when there are not supposedly impending shortages or inflation, everyone knows there's something wrong with it. It makes people sick and fat. I don't know if you want to talk about that. focus on corn and soy and some wheat and so forth. Maybe not the best crops to grow, they grow them because they grow cheaply. But you talk not only about that, but also how it destroys the land and puts everybody in long-term danger. It destroys the soil, it destroys the bees, and so forth. Do you want to just talk for a moment about this, your opinion on the modern industrial agriculture and so forth. Yes, before I do, let me please share what I'm drinking. I posted about this on Twitter, but yesterday I made an herbal, probably psychoactive,

forage brew of yarrow, menarda, birch twigs, fennel flowers, and maybe seven or eight other from the farm, and I've mixed that with about 50-50 with gin. Oh, that good. I mean, fennel, you like fennel salad? I like very thin slice with lemon and salt and some other thing. And if you have it at night, fennel salad, it gave me vivid dreams, just the fennel, you know? Maybe I'll try that tonight. I'll go dig one up. Well, I mean, if it's in your drink, no, no, go on. Well, maybe it'll work that way, too. But you're talking about the bulb. Yeah, yeah, the bulb, if you see. It has to be very thin slice, yeah. No, but I put the flowers in the drink. Yes, yes, I'm saying it. Probably you will have vivid dreams because of this. Yes, well, hopefully. I hope so.

Did you walk barefoot? Are you? Just so audience know, you are kind of what Rodre wishes he was. You walk barefoot to the coffee store and, you know. Yes, yes, exactly. Yeah, so, okay. You're a liberal Nordic. Yes, yes, minus the sordid fantasies. Was it a fantasy or a memory that he had about the other fantasies? Well, let's not. It's very unsavory, right? This guy Rodrír, he says he's a crunchy conservative, but you actually did what he talked about. You will become a farmer. farmer. His idea is to whine about his wife and to take very embarrassing photographs swooning over oyster in Paris because finally the big dead estate allow him to escape the COVID quarantine, so he's swooning over oyster. And then he has very unsavory stories that he look at the black

boy in in a locker room when he was in third. I don't want to talk. This is the mind. It's a It's a family show. Family show. Well, yeah. It is a family show. But actually, I wanted to talk about this later with you, because Rod Rehr is an example of what's wrong with this performative religious traditionalist who goes online. And I don't get along with people like that because they're fakers and so forth. And his story about… it's not unique. He gets into many things like that, unsavory stories like that. It shows what his spirit is. But I get along very well with the real thing, with people like you, with other traditionalists who are actually living it, not with the Rodrear published, what is he, American conservative?

Anyway, look, actually American conservative has some good people now. It doesn't Helen Andrews write for them? I don't know if she moved, but yeah, she good. But look, yes, American agricultural system. What wrong was it? Can you? Yes, I can explain. So before we even get to the question of what the farmers are even growing, I think what people need to understand and what never gets talked about is that the fundamental problem, we all know that it's not good, we all know that there's something wrong, it doesn't even matter what in particular is wrong, we can just, by its fruits, we can see that the people are all obese, the land is being destroyed, the bees are all dying, as you said, the yields are not increasing. These are all obvious symptoms of a deeply sick and necrotic system.

In my opinion, there's two things that are causing... The question is why is it perpetuating itself? Why hasn't it failed? If it's doing all these things, why hasn't it changed or were collapsed and been rebuilt. And the reason is because the American government incentivizes its moribund continuation, basically through USDA crop subsidies. And I'm not a law-bertardian, but this is one example of a government intervention that is really destroying, in some sense, just in the long term, destroying the country, because what it does is every, so in order for farmers to continue to, so first of all, farmers only goal, the average American farmer's only goal, and I wouldn't even say average, I would say basically every American farmer's only goal

is to continue farming on his family's land into next year. Years. And it's a year by year thing for them. I mean, if you don't harvest a crop and make the bank payments, whether it's land itself or usually just equipment, oftentimes they own the land, but they are completely over-levered on equipment. And that becomes very difficult because, A, because the way farming is done, as we talked about with nitrogen and so on, the soil fertility gets depleted more and more every year. So it's costlier to fertilize. And you're digging yourself out from a deeper hole in order to put down enough fertility to grow a corn crop. And then also, these types of crops, corn and soy in particular, and corn especially, are susceptible to natural failure due to natural hail storms and things like this.

And so, the American government has crop insurance through the Department of Agriculture, where certain crops are essentially insured. So if the crop fails for whatever reason, they'll buy the theoretical crop at a certain price and you will not go into default as the farmer. But this isn't to protect farmers, this is merely to protect their creditors. This has nothing to do with wanting to be nice to farmers because if you want it to be nice to farmers, we would be doing work to promote sustainable soil practices so that they can actually have hope for the future Can you get into that for a moment, because audience may not know. You explained in your article, I found very nice explanation, what you mean by the destruction of the soil.

You had an argument there about the infiltration of the water into the soil and how basically that's disappearing in the United States because of over-farming. So what happens is that soil organic matter is lost. And all of that is just carbon-based molecules, so humic acid and other organic molecules like that, long chain molecules that what they do is, and as chemists in the audience will know, carbon is a very promiscuous molecule, it's wanting to latch on to other molecules all the time. And so what it does is it holds on to water, holds on to nitrogen, holds on to phosphorus. that come into the soil get, you know, retained when there's a lot of carbon in the soil. And when you till, for example, when you go into a field and plow it and expose those

carbon-based organic molecules to the sun, they literally combust, they react with oxygen, and you lose those carbon molecules. And if you do that year after year after year, what used to be the deepest, richest, blackest soils in the world in the American Midwest built up over thousands of years by the continual rotation of bison being chased by wolves and human beings and stuff, grass being trampled, animals dying, thousands and thousands of years of this is what built those soils. You deplete that resource very quickly. And that's what's happening in the US when you hear about there's only 60 or 50 more harvests left. That's what they're talking about. I don't know whether that's the actual number, but this is actually true. Eventually we'll just run out of fertility

and the cost-benefit analysis, it's not even about a cost-benefit analysis, it simply won't be physically feasible to actually put down the amount of fertility that will be needed, barring a major technological innovation, which it would have to defy the laws of physics in order to save us if we keep going the way we're going. So when you lose all that carbon due to tillage and also due to just erosion. As you may know, the Gulf of Mexico is just a giant dead zone now. And because of all the erosion coming out of the Mississippi, which drains 60% of the continent, so all of the manure and fertilizer and other stuff that's being carried with, and soil itself that's being carried with rainwater that isn't being infiltrated. It's going down at the Gulf of Mexico,

killing all the aquatic life. And so when you lose the carbon due to just literally tillage and it being combusted into the air or water or wind erosion, as in the dust bowl was a big example of this that people have heard of, what you end up with is soil that can't infiltrate water. It can't hold on to fertility. and it becomes very difficult for it to grow anything productively, basically. And what that means is that – sorry, I lost my train of thought. Actually, you were talking about the soil, but I wanted to ask you something about the farmers, because you bring up the question of why they keep planting the same crops over and over. As you know, a lot of small family farms went out of business. I knew long ago

a kid grew up on a dairy farm in the Midwest, and it was enormously hard work, and very hard to keep it financially feasible. And these farms get then bought by conglomerates. And Jim Rogers, I think he's the one who used to say that the average age of a farmer in the United States is something like 56, and it's even older in other countries. And there's basically no money in it because the food prices have been, in his opinion, and he was saying this ten years ago, he thought food prices were artificially low, kept low for a long time. So he said he's put a lot of investments into farming because he said if food prices don't go up, if more young people don't go into farming, everyone will starve, nobody will be growing food.

Instead, you have apparently these large conglomerates buying large plot of land. So you have the replacement of the family farm with the giant farm, the latifundia of the late Roman Empire, which, as is known, is not something that go well with Republican government. And in fact, it leads to extreme social instability. France had took centuries of warfare and so forth to get over the Roman Latifundia system. And it's still practiced in South America, of course, if you go to Argentina, especially that are country-sized tracts of land that a few families own and similar type of industrial agriculture for what are they called? Are they these crops like soy, wheat, corn and so forth, these mass crops? So you're saying this is destroying the soil, yes? But what

would be alternative? How do you not have that happen? Well, so the alternative, the question of what the alternative is is second to how do you actually just get out of this cycle. And so, you know, I talked about debt forgiveness earlier. It would have to be something like that for farmers, because the reason that this cycle is perpetuated is because the farms are totally levered, totally overlevered to, you know, whatever institutional creditors are lending farmers money in order to grow enough corn to enough government subsidized corn to pay off their other loans. That's kind of the situation that most farmers are in and that's why they keep growing corn. If they could grow something else, they would. They're just doing what makes the most logical sense under the current system.

It's not like they're wedded to corn or soy or anything else. It's just that's what is incentivized by the government structure. So you'd have to incentivize, presumably through the government, something different. And I think if it were a quote unquote free market were possible, not that I think that it necessarily is, but what would be incentivized by the free market would be just to grow what grows naturally, which is grass in the Midwest at least. And that's what was there. That's what had been there for thousands of years like I was talking about. And the question then becomes, because that's what wants to grow there. That's the natural biosphere in that area. And so the question is how do you then superimpose an agriculture upon that natural system

that actually increases soil fertility and increases biodiversity and wildlife, et cetera. And the way to do that and the form of agriculture that I practice is something that has lots of different names, but we can call it managed grazing, which basically means that we're taking herbivores, in my case, cows and sheep, and managing them as though they were wild bison or buffalo, or wildebeest or reindeer or any other kind of wild herbivore that's in a grassland type setting. that essentially how those animals behave is that they are constantly being harassed and harangued by ferocious pack hunting predators, like wolves in North America, but lions and other big cats, and other predators that will force those animals to bunch up in tight herds, which they do as a defensive mechanism

that I'm sure everyone knows, bunch up in tight herds and keep constantly moving. And that bunching up effect has a seriously significant effect on how the land actually will respond to the presence of animals. So whereas if they were all out grazing, sort of dotting the pastures as you drive by type scene that I'm sure everyone is used to seeing if they're driving through a rural area with cows and sheep, mainly cows, that actually, unfortunately, although it's nice to look at, is bad for the land. Because what happens is when those animals are, first of all, the grass never gets a chance to regrow. So whereas if you're, say you're using electric fence, and you take a 100 acre field, and you take electric fence and you give your herd or your flock one acre per day.

So you're moving them onto the next acre every single day. You move them. It takes 20 minutes. It's not labor intensive. And the benefit of that is, A, that the animals get fresh grass that they haven't. There's no manure in it and stuff, which can cause parasite problems, et cetera. But even bigger than that is that the grass that was grazed first then gets 99 days of rest and recovery so that it can be grazed again. And during that rest and recovery, the roots are deepening. The soil is mulched by the trampling effect of the animal so that the soil temperature is being maintained constant at a good temperature where soil biological activity, microbiological activity can continue to happen and the biological cycle can continue. Whereas if it gets too hot or the soil is exposed,

that just goes dormant and doesn't come back until the temperature cools again. And of course, moisture is retained also. and that grass will just grow again. And actually, and so what's really cool, what's the esoteric knowledge that everyone should have is that every time, so it's difficult to explain verbally, but I'll try. So every, so grass in particular, but plants in general, want to maintain what they call a bilateral symmetry between their above-ground growth, so the leaves of the grass, and the below-ground growth, so the roots. So the plant wants to have a certain proportion between those two things. And so if you've got a grass plant that's three feet tall, the roots will be a certain depth. And if you take sheep and you graze the three foot tall pasture to say six inches

and trample the six inches that remain, then the grass roots will be sloughed off in proportion to how much they were grazed. And every time that those grass roots are sloughed off, you're adding soil fertility because that's just photosynthetic activity where sugars are being generated out of sunlight and water and air, carbon dioxide, and glucose is being made and then it's being stored in the roots. And so then when those roots are sloughed off and die, the soil microbiological food web is being run off of that sugary fuel. And that's how soil gets built. I'm afraid of fungus. Some of them spread. I hear stories. They spread across the whole country area and can control brain, but sorry to interrupt. So this is very interesting. You're saying this method of grazing is what can

regenerate soil fertility, actually. Well, so if you look at all of the deepest soils in the world, and you ask yourself how they were built, universally, the way they were built, if they were built quickly in geological time that is, the way they were built is by having herbivores running, cycling on top of him for millennia and being chased by pack hunting predators. So this effect of large, the other cool thing about the herd or the mob pattern in nature is that when herbivorous animals are bunched together, like bison or wildebeest, you might see pictures of them in a herd or videos of them in a herd, their behavior actually changes just from them being bunched together. They become much less selective in what they graze.

So when they're bunched together, or if they're in a small area, like what we can create with electric fence, they will graze everything in the paddock. Whereas if you give those same that same herd of sheep that I was talking about earlier you give them the whole hundred acre field they'll go through and only eat all the clover and you know the fescue and the good the good tasty grasses that are sugary or that they prefer and over time those plants will get overgrazed and die and the weedy plants like the thistles and the dandelions etc are what proliferate and that's just what happens to pastures all over the place and in certain places they every couple of years they have to till pasture which is insane and reseed

it and so you know that's just that's essentially just like growing corn you know that's the same economics is growing corn maybe a little you're dying a little bit more slowly but um yeah so when you want the animals to be selective a because you know just like human beings it's good you know if you're trying to if you give a kid the choice between ice cream and like you know vegetables I don't know maybe that's I don't know are vegetables good or is this okay? I don't know. But if you give the kid, the kid will just eat ice cream and then he'll become obese and it'll be a disaster. So whereas if he's hungry and he's got a bunch of other kids that he's competing with, maybe he'll eat whatever's in front

of him, which is, that's what it's like for the sheep or the cows when they're a bunch more tightly. And so you have to move them more often. So that's labor intensive. But in exchange for that, you save on pharmaceutical costs, you save on infrastructural costs, you save on veterinary costs. And we can get into this also, but because this applies to the economy more broadly, but it's this phobia of just like physical labor. You see it with, I mean, farmer, like you can, yeah, it's crazy, there's articles in Wall Street Journal, et cetera, so excited about how farmers can just sit in their tractors while the tractors drive themselves and they watch Netflix all day. It's like, this is actually a bad thing, you know? Because skill is important. Go ahead.

No, if I may interrupt, I agree with all you're saying, but you're saying you want to replace this agriculture of these soy, corn, wheat type crops, which unfortunately form much of American diet now in its extreme carb-heavy and a lot of junk food carb-heavy and seed oil that come from these same things. They grow canola and so forth. You're saying it's feasible to replace that with pasture land and convert that grass into, you say some meat, but mainly milk and to have a national milk and dairy-based diet, you're saying this? Yes, yes, absolutely. And it works out? I mean, you know, it's not, You're not going to lead to a Sri Lanka situation. There's going to be enough food for everyone. Well, what does all the corn go to anyway? Yes. It goes mainly to ethanol, which don't even

get me started, Bap. I'll chimp out. I can't talk about ethanol, because it's too crazy. It's too suicidal. And then most of the rest of it goes to feeding cows. So, are we talking about the energy conversion, the cows themselves, there's way more acreage of rangeland than there is of cropland, so it's a question of just making the rangeland more efficient. What are you going to do about, I mean, of course we're talking theoretically now, but you know very well that let's say you convince people to slowly move to this system, and You are a good liberal man, let's say that. Let's say you are, or your public face will be when you enact this program and these suggestions. But you will be viciously attacked now because so many so-called minorities do not biologically

have, you know, they can't digest milk. No, I'm saying that's a big, that's a big thing. They get mad. Raw milk they can digest. Yeah, well, I mean, they say they can't. What about the Maasai? No, look, of course, there are tribes in Africa that can digest the Maasai, the Tutsi, the harder tribes. They also, you know, they put like a straw in the jugular vein of the cow and they drink the blood. It's interesting. Yeah, yeah, no, I like the blood. I like blood sausage and so forth, but yeah, the Maasai are different, though. I'm talking right now in the United States there are articles and chimp-outs whenever the subject of milk comes up, it brings a lot of anger. They say it's white supremacy.

But I mean even if it weren't for that association, let's say you get past the online association, you say those are online crazy people. It's just the biological fact that in so-called diverse country, a lot of people are lactose intolerant and they'll chimp out at that. But okay, let's see. The lactase is in the raw milk. It's because of pasteurization that this has happened. All cultures have been, you know, look at, you know, where do you think that in the so-called a fertile crescent in Saudi Arabia or other places where the ethnic, now when they move to America suddenly, they're lactose intolerant. All of these cultures are dairy-based cultures. Everywhere has dairy and dairy products. Well, I suppose yes, there's cheese and yogurt. Okay, I was making a little joke, but explain

to people because it's a very beautiful image you had in this article of ice cream nationalism. Explain to people the way it would work with the ponds and the duck eggs, if you have time, if you don't mind. Yes, of course, yes. No, I have all night. I think, yes, so when I, you know, earlier I said we have to increase the efficiency of rangeland. I worry, I sound, I worry people think I am, you know, maybe Vladimir, Vladimir Ulyanov, okay? This is a similar thing that he would say. But I think this is actually possible in America with two minor interventions. I think we need a government program. Did you see today that somebody tried to blow up the Hoover Dam? I saw an explosion, but I didn't know that someone blew up. I thought...

Well, it's not confirmed, but I intuit that it was an eco-terrorist attack. I don't know. Unconfirmed. Unconfirmed. But this is what I... I mean, look, I think a lot of people are saying that food processing plants are burning down, energy plants are burning down, and they're saying it's a conspiracy to destroy the food supply. I don't know if it is or not, but what I do know is that when South Africa had a certain – I know you are a polite liberal man, so I will not say certain words – but it had a certain change in society in the 1990s, and they scrapped their nuclear program because they did not want their nuclear program to fall into the hands of people who who are not very competent at managing nuclear technology. And very soon after that society change in South Africa,

you have stories like South African submarine hits the ocean floor. And not just one, but many things like that. And in America, even before now in the last few years, the Navy ships colliding with each other, is it sabotage or is it just, you know, the 92 IQ, the new normal, the new normal of the 92 IQ maintenance and so forth. I don't know. But that's another subject. I brought it up because I want to talk about the water in the West is a big question. I have another little heuristic, which is all agriculture is water management. That's what agriculture really is. And right now in America we're not managing water at all, we're just squandering it all. It all goes into, and you know, for example in the Colorado River Basin, which is where

the Hoopa Dam is, it all gets, you know, held in dams, where actually, you know, if you're worried about methane emissions, okay, this is the environmentalist out there, if you're worried about methane emissions then you better start blowing up dams, Three Gorges Dam in China needs to be blown up because these anaerobic environments created by the ponds, the massive lakes that form behind these huge dams, they produce tons of methane because, you know, methane is just the byproduct of biological decay in anaerobic environment. Sorry to interrupt you. Can you grow tobacco, please? Can you start growing this? Yes. I'm trying to smoke this. It's not lighting. It keeps going out. That my personal blend. If you can find the mullein weed, the mullein weed, maybe some

dried lemon thyme and dried rose petals. This is a good blend. I don't know. It sounds like Lord of the Rings, but I will try. But so look, you're right. You're saying it's about the water management. Can you talk about that for a second? So there's enough rainfall in almost all of, maybe not in Arizona or something, but in most of America, there's enough rainfall to grow, to drastically increase forage production. everywhere the problem is that it all runs off and so actually Bap you'll enjoy this statistic there's a very good book I'm forgetting the title but if you look up there's a book about beavers you know if you're an admirer of the French civilization you know the original motivation for the French to come over here and you know and colonize a large chunk of

the continent was for the beavers they wanted the beaver hats the ladies wore the beavers as hats. It was, you know, maybe quite nice, I don't know. But there were millions of beavers, okay, and some of them were enormous. And they're, you know, as you know, beavers build dams in waterways, right? They hear the sound of running water, and they're schizoids, just like you and me, and spurgs. And when they hear the sound of running water, they are biologically forced, they have no choice but to go and make it stop, you know. This is the will, okay, that you talk, you know, Schopenhauer in will, okay. No one knows why, but that's what they do. And 10% of, not including the Great Lakes, but 10% of North America, they did, you know,

archaeological studies on this, 10% of North America was under fresh water before European, in conquest and arrival because of the beavers, okay? So can you imagine how much, just the mere reality of holding water, holding rainwater, I'm not talking about damming rivers, okay? I'm talking about in valleys where rainwater comes down without there being a creek or a river there, just taking, building dams, removing the soil so that there's a dam in the valley so that it will create a small pond in that valley, okay? Not damming rivers, I'm against damming rivers. I believe all dams should be taken down. I think hydroelectricity is the worst form of electricity because of the ecological catastrophe that it represents. I can talk more about that later.

But if we could simply hold the rainwater high in the landscape where it can be gravity fed from high in the mountains down through tubing and pipes into range land where it can be used for irrigation, it can be used to water livestock. If we did this, there should be like a new deal type program where the government offers to build ponds high in the landscape for free. It doesn't steal water from people downstream because obviously all water eventually goes down into the ocean, it just slows it down. And this would make great progress terms of re-energizing aquifers, it would drastically, especially in places like California where it does rain a lot but you just lose all that water because it only rains for small periods of time throughout the year and the soil just can't hold it all.

This would be, this is the way to use human technology to intervene in the landscape one time and build these dams, build plumbing systems that can move the water quickly. These are the kinds of engineering projects that the men who built America would be excited about if they were still around. It just eliminates, well it doesn't eliminate, but it relieves an enormous pressure on any farmer to have, especially in a drier area, a quick and easy source of water that he can rely on. And so that's what I think we should do. And I also suggest that in certain ponds, depending on time of year, obviously you have to be careful. If you're using it for livestock water, you wouldn't want to do this. But if you're using it just for irrigation, it would be a really good idea to put water

fowl in those ponds because we call that fertigation, fertilizer and irrigation at the same time. So they're manure, the duck manure, they can convert the biological activity in the ponds, the plants that grow in the water and snails and other things like that that grow in the water. You can grow duckweed or azolla, these are interesting aquatic plants that are very ancient. I was telling you about azolla before the show. is a fresh water fern that actually there's a geological theory, I don't know what percentage of your audience are new creationists, but there's a geological theory that one of the ice ages was started back when the ice caps were, the planet was all tropical for some reason and there was no ice in the Arctic and all of a sudden out of nowhere this massive

proliferation of this plant called Azolla happened and then the plant still exists, you can buy it online for your aquarium and it grew all over the Arctic Ocean and then it suddenly sucked down all of this carbon through photosynthesis and then it suddenly died and sank to the bottom and this plunged the entire planet into a massive ice age. Yes, I remember this. I was there. No, it's true. There were civilizations around the Arctic Circle. This is true. If you read the Rig Vedas, the day is six months and the night is six months. How did they know this? But look, so you are saying you can have very easy management of land, water, and waterfowl, and it's self-sustaining, you're saying, it's kind of self-sustaining? Yes. Well, not easy. This requires work.

I think this is why we need, you know... Well, it requires work to establish, but once you have it there, you're saying it's an agricultural system that doesn't have the problems exist now. It benefits from the inertia of natural systems, let's put it that way. It capitalizes on what grows naturally. It makes use of the resources that we now take for granted that are freely given by nature and capitalizes them and maximizes their output. But, you know, we, of course, we need legions of, you know, Bronze Age mindset, cowboy bodybuilders and to manage the cattle and this is, you know, and I think they will... And the beautiful milkmaids, that was one, yes, so just to tell audience, William makes case in this article that to solve America water problem, very serious problem, you can

have New Deal program to build these ponds. In these ponds you can grow waterfowl and the harvesting of the eggs plus the harvesting of the milk from the cattle, you can, with these two ingredients and honey, which would also be locally available because you can have beekeeping. You can provide enough ice cream, which is very nutritionally complete food, right? You can essentially have ice cream nationalism. This can provide ice cream diets for entire countries. Is that what you're saying? Yes, absolutely. And the milk maids will be in charge. So the cowboys will be up there the range, taking care of the sheep and the cattle. They'll have dogs with them, and maybe hang out by the campfire and have athletic competitions, etc. And when they drive them

down, they'll drive the sheep or the cows down every day to the barns and the valleys and the milkmaids will be there. There'll be nice flirtatious moments. That is true trade life. That was one of my favorite images in your article, but I wanted to just tell audience because this plan may sound a little utopian to them. It sounds someone could come to you and say, are you guys trying to be like Pol Pot and force people away from cities and make them work the land, make them return to the land? But that's not what you or I are saying, we're going to use force. It would be done slowly, gradually, it would start as an experiment in a few places and see if it works. But yes, it would need government subsidies.

But my answer to these people, you tell me if you agree with this, William, is that it's not as if we have a laissez-faire, free market, burgeoning economy now in the cities where young people are having wonderful economic life and so forth. Most people are involved in essentially welfare, it's make-work jobs, young women... Externalized jobs program, yes, private sector jobs program. Private sector job program, so many women, young women work HR human resources, it makes them, it ruins their lives, besides making them extremely unpleasant, that is not productive, not a productive economic activity. It exists because of government regulation. It represents the consumption and cost on the economy. And I think, given the chance, maybe if they see

other people are given these subsidies and they have a better life, even economically living the lifestyle you are saying, moving back to an organic food production system, something like that. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, I mean, I'm not a luddite or an anti-technologist, but I can't believe that, you know, not even online right-wing schizoids, but just normal guys and normal girls wouldn't be attracted to, if it were established and if there were certain guarantees in place, which obviously yes, you need either government or a wealthy benefactor to get at least the first iteration of this going, that people wouldn't be attracted to this lifestyle. I'm not saying we need to go back to pre-technological Amish-type times, but there's certainly enough

– how do I want to say this – that longing is definitely there. You can see that in all sorts of, there's countless sort of urine posting accounts, aesthetic accounts that get gajillions of likes on pictures of, I don't know, like a Winslow Homer shepherdess painting or something like that. The natural longing is there, what's lacking is the guarantors, basically the lordship, benefactors, you know, we need Peter Thiel to buy 100,000 acres maybe, I don't know where, and we do an experiment, you know, we see how it goes. I think it's not to start a commune or anything, I don't believe that that tends to work very well, but you know, something along these lines where we can prove that this is possible.

Yes, prove that it's possible, but ultimately you are saying the government should seriously think on this because it's a solution to multiple problems. The depletion of the land, the destruction of people's health. I mean obviously the food system in United States, and actually I shouldn't just say United States, it's in Mexico. The obesity is Mexico's second most obese country in the world right now. The medical costs of obesity in New York State alone are something like 25% of the economy, and so it's not as if you are starting from a good condition. You're starting from where people are in a hole and they're constantly trying to dig themselves out of various holes, and this solves, in theory, it would solve the health

problem, the land depletion problem, the food security problem, which we have not even talked about, you know, everyone knows the statistics that there is only two weeks' worth of food in the supermarkets. I think there's actually supermarkets. I think it's more like three days after which you'd have zombie apocalypse if there was any disruption. How many weeks of SSRI pharmaceutical backup is there? That's what I'm wondering. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. Go on. But I think that problem is related because you don't have 1900 Vienna or even New York with laissez-faire economy where people can have a natural economic life in the cities. Again it is fake, people are unhappy, they're fat and so forth.

You have a large of course the opioid epidemic which are diseases of despair in the same way that Russia experienced in early 1990s, after their collapse, but with alcoholism. There are many problems that your system would be an offer to solve, and it could be done gradually. But regarding what we just said, the food security, most people without supermarket have no other source of food, right? Yes. Bodega Bro pointed this out recently. Who's Bodega Bro? Oh yeah, that guy, yeah. the New York guy, but I don't know that he would have source of food if Whole Foods or whatever closed. No, no, definitely not. But he was pointing out what you said, that people don't have a source of food at all. This is abnormal in the sense that in East Bloc, where there were serious food problems

because of communist schemes and so forth, which again, we are not proposing that type of thing. But over there in East Bloc, in the Soviet Union especially, most people had a source of food from the countryside that they knew of directly, through a relative or a friend. Yes, a relative or a relative of a relative. And there was a black market of peasants coming into cities to sell food on black market. Also, people don't know about that. Interesting. I didn't know that. In general, most people knew, oh, there's no food, I can go to this place, I can buy directly from farm. This is alien experience for vast majority of not just American, but across the world, which is why Argentina, I know you know this country, in North Argentina, Doug Casey, libertarian,

he built libertarian compounds there, and why they choose area in North Argentina in Salta province, around the Caffayate region, it's a wine growing region. But they chose it specifically because they would have food that they need within 50 miles and water that they need within 25 miles, something like that, in case of major disruptions because these are libertarian paranoid like that. But I like that kind of thinking and American so-called food security runs in opposite direction, Extremely centralized, extremely fragile, nothing locally available in case of disruption. Your system would solve all of these problems at once. How many calories are in the landscape around you? Think of it that way. You literally have to think of it calorically in terms of if you're worried about this,

If you want to think about what it might be like in an emergency situation, in New York, how many other than literally embodied in human flesh, how many calories are there per acre in New York? Survival doesn't bode well. I think in response to everything you just said, I agree with everything completely, especially the economic points. I think, you know, I feel I've been, I've meandered somewhat in describing what I'm talking about my vision and I hope it doesn't sound wishy-washy. No, it's very interesting, but yeah, you're not saying we want to be pulled apart, right? No, no, no, this would all be voluntary and I think it should start as a start-up, a business of some kind and I'm hoping someone will invest in me, you know, I'm just doing it at my family's

place for now, but hopefully we can make it bigger scale, excuse me, they attacked me. What I wanted to say was simply to put it in a small number of words is just that the way the system is now with its soil depletion, with its obesity effect, with its, as you said, effect on just the healthcare cost of the country, which is only going to get even worse as people get older and die less, all of that is the way it is because it is subsidized to be that way, because there are incentives in place for it to be that way. And so it's not like it's like that because that's the natural way or it makes sense. It's not like that for that reason at all. because between special interests in agribusiness, specifically the chemical industry and Monsanto,

we haven't even talked about GMOs and proprietary genetics and things like that, and then obviously with the creditors, which isn't as big a deal, but I suspect that it's part of the motivation for keeping it the way it is, keeping the system the way it is. those types of interests, the government is simply representing those interests. It's what the liberals said it was 20 or 30 years ago. The left pointed this out. It's quite funny that the left, if you read funny articles in Jacobin, they're all very pro-industrial agriculture now, all of a sudden, which makes sense. This idea that you have to feed the world, one of the phrases I hate the most. Yes, it's terrible. I've been keeping you for almost an hour on this segment. What do you say we take a break?

Do you have more time? I can ask you that. And I want to ask you what led you to the thread life and your opinion on the traditional life and so forth. Yes, I have all the time in the world map. I'm excited to continue the conversation when we get back from Mullen break. Yes, very good, very good, William. We will be right back. Caribbean reason number one sexy show. We will be right back. We are back on show, I'm here with William Ville Wright, he is going to lead a Jeffersonian gentleman farmer revolution in America and restore the Republic. And I want to ask you about a general problem of farming traditional life and how it relates to America culture at large if you want, but I wanted to ask you, William, about the animal that you raise.

You say you raise mostly sheeps and cows, and may I ask the breed, do you raise a particular kind of cow? I have Herefords, so they're kind of second to, in terms of, not in terms of quality but in terms of prominence, second to Angus as the sort of main beef breed, because I do raise them for beef as of right now, even though I know everything I said, I'm transitioning to the dairy life. I've never actually raised dairy animals before, but I'm very excited to start doing it with sheep. And then for sheep, I have some East Friesians now, which are the main dairy breed for sheep. And I also have always had Dorsets here, so we have Dorsets as well. Yes. Have you considered importing somehow or can you find anywhere the Mongolian fat-tailed sheep? I heard they make exceptionally fatty milks.

This is interesting. I think I've seen you talk about this but I need to do more extensive research because this could be a very good idea. I don't know if they would perform in this climate but we have to try and do this. I think we need to do more research and maybe we can have an alliance with some of the tribesmen there, the yurt dwellers. And I think as you've pointed out, they still have the Bronze Age mindset. Yes, they eat boiled sheep, mostly salted boiled sheep. I like the mutton taste, but I think it would be difficult to convince an American palate to accept that. Yes, I tried to force my family to use only mutton tallow soap with almond oil. Unfortunately they resisted and they almost came to blows with my own flesh and blood. But I need to improve the rest of it.

You remember actually I posted about this. I think it was one of the first things that you retweeted of mine. I just posted, I had no idea it would go, it would be so popular, but I just posted a picture of the soap that I made, and all of a sudden it was, you know, dozens of Tyler Jordan gifts in the comments, it was quite funny, I forgot that that would be an obvious internet connection. But this is good, I see no reason why not, and I say it's not good for American palate, but tastes can change very fast, people forget that liverwurst, which most Americans now Now when they hear liver or offal, they turn their nose up. But it used to be a working class staple until very recently in America. You could find in any working class eatery, liver forest and pickle sandwich.

You can still find that in most small bars in Argentina. It's roughly the same immigrants brought it to both places. But it used to be German Americans ate it. I don't know, they stopped and they replaced it with this gruel, I guess, is what the diet is now. It's gruel. Yes. But you grow, so you grow sheeps and cow, do you grow porks also? You say you grow porks? Yes, pasture raised porks, finished on the mast in the forest, the acorns, walnuts, hickories. I even have some chestnuts now that I planted 10 or 15 years ago that I let the pigs eat the chestnuts. kind of trying to replicate the the HESA system in Spain, which I know you you're an admirer of It's also great because you know, you can take

Another there's another interesting question about the productivity question that we were alluding to earlier. Like is it is it real? Can we really feed the the country? Let's not ask if we can feed the world but can we feed the country on the types of things that I'm talking about? Well, how much you know when they talk about when they when when you know bug men come online and and you know rattle off statistics about what's possible and what's not. They don't actually know anything, they're just going on Wikipedia and looking at such and such number of acres and then they take out their calculator on their phone and they divide that by whatever it says a cow needs per, you know, how many acres a cow needs

per year and, you know, it doesn't actually, this is the kind of, you know, this is literally what they do. And so they don't actually know anything. And you know, a great example is the entire eastern seaboard, the forests in the east, You know, a lot of them are dying because, you know, they've just been allowed to grow. People think that, you know, nature reaches some sort of like apex state where it just is stable. And this is obviously not true. You know, we need forest fires. That's another thing that we should be having more of is fire, especially in the more temperate climates and managed fires, I mean. There's a very beautiful, I think Henry Hudson, but maybe a different explorer described coming up the Hudson River and, you know, just fire as far as the eye can see on

both sides of the river. It's a very cool, you know, kind of, you know, Conradian image there. But what I was going to say is... Well, the forests are dying. Why? Why? Oh, just because they need management. They need to be either burned. So, they're dying as maybe an exaggeration. Part of it is because there's so many, there's so many you know foreign pests that have been introduced and you know the emerald ash borer which came from Siberia you know chestnut blight which my friend if you remember my friend my friend cubs jaw did a great thread on a while ago that went very viral chestnut blight from you know early in the early 20th century just you know one in one in four trees in the American East east of the Mississippi were chestnuts and these massive in you know just the the

The calories that a chestnut produces, I was talking earlier about calories in the landscape, and just think about how much wildlife that feeds, how much, you literally have a backstop of, and you know, European peasants in feudal times, they used to, if necessary, their last resort was to go and boil and grind acorns during famines and whatnot, so having multiple backstop last resorts. Many traditional European stews that have potato now used to have chestnut, you know, but... Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, in Corsica, if you go to Corsica, it was the law in Corsica because, you know, Corsica had to be self-sufficient because pirates were constantly cutting it off and trying to bombard it and, you know, rape and pillage the Corsican women, etc.

And there was the law in Corsica that every family, for every male in the family, one chestnut tree had to be planted every year. And now, you go there. Have you ever been there? I have not, no. Well, you go there and you go in the forest and there's chestnut trees, you know, 10 feet, 10 foot diameter trunks. Everybody should try and go just, you know, arbal tourism, arba tourism for the chestnut trees in Corsica. There are feral pigs there, formerly domesticated, now wild pigs that just simply live off the chestnuts in the forest. Yes, that's the thing. If these chestnut trees had been maintained in the East United States, they could preserve very large herds of porks that could feed the people with actually very high quality meat.

Yes, we still have walnuts and hickories and oaks, so it's not totally dire, but yes, if we had the chestnuts, we would be in a much better position. But explain for a second, because this is interesting about the forest maintenance, because people, you started to say this, but go with that, you were saying, people think that the forest will just grow and keep growing, a state of stability, yes, that it will grow like jungle and keep growing, but I've heard theories that it's not normal actually for forests to have this undergrowth. In the Urals, when you go to primeval forest in the Urals, you can drive in between the trees. I heard similar stories about when the settler came to United States, to Americas, the forests were similar to that. And then people should look up what this means.

In Spain and Portugal, on that border, there are rolling hills and acorn trees. It looks a little bit like savannah. It doesn't look so much like dense forest with undergrowth. But I've heard theories that actually primeval forest does look like that because extremely large herbivores ate the undergrowth and pruned the trees. Is this what you're saying, that people have a false image of what a primal nature looks like, and they're letting these forests kill themselves essentially? Absolutely, absolutely, 100%. The dense, you've talked about on the show, the chthonic spirit, especially of New England you were talking about, of the forest there and the demonic spirits that dwell there, which I fully agree with you, it has a very dark energy, but this is partially because,

precisely what we're talking about, the forest would have been, you know, you can read from some of the earliest English explorers who came to the Virginia colony, I think that their name was the Knights of the Golden Horseshoe, something like this, and they rode into the Shenandoah Valley and they describe it as park-like, which I think just means what you were saying, like a savanna, widely spaced, large mass bearing trees, so oaks and walnuts and other things like that, bear nuts in the fall. And then this is, I'm borrowing from Joel Salatin, famous farmer right now, but he always quotes them and says that they rode back to England and said that they rode through the valley and the grass was so tall, you could tie it in a knot above the horse's saddle.

And partially, they were probably exaggerating because they wanted more Europeans to come over and join them. But it makes sense that it would have been so abundantly fertile, because the reason that it was like that is because native tribes were managing it with fire. And they were very deliberate about keeping areas open, because they wanted deer to get fat on grass and acorns, et cetera, that they would hunt. and they also wanted to, they would let other areas go unburned so that, you know, brambles and raspberry, blackberry bushes would grow up and they would forage for that, et cetera. So they were very intentional, you know, about using fire as a technology. And I'm suggesting the same sort of thing, except our tool rather than fire would be mainly

using livestock as a land management tool is really the way to think about it. Yes, in this agricultural region called the geza, they grow, of course, the famous Iberico porks who go around, they eat the acorn, but not just that, they eat grasses that grow there and herbs. It's not just the pigs, they grow also the famous bull, the bull fighting bull. They let them get big and strong over there. other animal also, so it's more of a system you're talking about, agricultural self-sustaining system. Once you establish it, actually people love it. People love the food that grows there. They want it. And those oaks, you know the Latin name for oak is quercus, and this oak that they grow in Spain is the cork oak, which is also harvested to make cork. Yes.

Yeah, Portugal, biggest producer of cork in the world. Yeah, I'm giving you, the reason I mentioned is just to show that another point that should be emphasized is the sort of unidimensionality of American agriculture is catastrophic as well, because it's just one thing, and it's one harvest at one point in the year, whereas a healthy agricultural system should have, as you say, we've got pigs, we've got bulls, we've got acorns, got cork you know there's there's many different harvests there's many different yields so yeah and you know you're if you're average if you have such a good system that it's it's beautiful and you have tourists you know that's another yield right there so yeah that should be another goal. I've been

meaning to ask you when I ask you about animal because I'm very interested in animal and behavior yes and breeds and what kind of porks did you have did you actually grow Iberico pork so what no no I don't think I you know I had I've had Mangalitsa for a little bit, you know, the Hungarian royal pigs, but it's difficult to sell Mangalitsa because really it's a lard pig and what pigs were generally prior to the modern era was essentially a fat generation factory on hooves, you know, on trotters. People didn't harvest them for their meat, it was in order to cure the fat and make lardo, like salona, you know, this famous hagari. It's the best food and now people don't like that, right? Yeah, yeah, it's crazy, it's crazy. So, that's what Mangalitsa is and, you know,

Gordon Ramsay likes to cook with it, but, you know, other than that, it's difficult to sell a pork chop with, you know, a six-inch fat cap on it to a regular American housewife. You couldn't find a gourmet restaurant in this type? They don't want that? Because Mangalitsa is quite expensive and... Yeah, so I only raised a couple of mangalits just for myself and stuff, but I mainly raised, I had different crossbreeds of heritage breeds, so Berkshire, Duroc, Hampshire, these sorts of things, nothing too elaborate, but a lot of the breed stuff, some of it's real, but I think the breeds, what they end up doing is they form breed associations, like the Angus is the most obvious example because everybody has heard of black Angus because

it's on every menu in the country as though it means something. But every cow in America is black Angus. Any time you eat beef it's going to be Angus. There's not another option. And in Berkshire that's not the case. The industrial pig comes originally from Yorkshire, Yorkshire breed, which is a heritage breed that they, because actually the main reason for it is similar to the reason that Cornish Crosses, the industrial chicken, have white feathers and white leghorns, the egg-laying breed, are the same. This is because they pluck better. If you leave the feather residue in the skin, it's not visible with black feathered birds or dark-feathered birds, you can still see the sort of follicle, and it's obviously off-putting because hair and feathers don't belong in the kitchen.

And it's the same thing with dark-haired pig breeds. So Yorkshire's, which are the pink, classic pink, original pink pig, when they go to scald and after they've been slaughtered, they get scalded and de-haired. And if you buy a pork roast with the skin on it, it'll be nicely de-haired. But if you bought a heritage breed version of that like a Berkshire which has black hair, you would likely, it wouldn't have hair in it, but it would have little black dots that kind of look like it, the hairs in it. Well I think there is large truth that breeds of pigs for example all behave very similar and actually have you found them to be aggressive because the wild boar is one of the most aggressive an easily angered animal anywhere. I was recently walking in forest regions. I was very afraid

that a wild boar would come. A wild boar attack takes two to three minutes. They come at you. They can gore you. They can kill you. And pigs, actually the domestic pig is also aggressive and can eat people. Did you find him to be aggressive to you? No, never, I mean, so I think if you, people who deal with boars have to be very careful, literal, you know, intact males, that they can, they can, you don't want to turn your back. It's the same thing with bulls or even larger rams, you know, they can, not that rams are going to hurt you after they knock you down, but rams can knock you down. Some of them are 300 pounds and they have, you know, three inch thick skull to headbutt you with. And you know, a bull will kill you and a boar will definitely kill you because it has, like

It depends whether they've had the eye teeth removed. There's horror stories of old pig farmers falling and hitting their heads in the pig pen and there's nothing left. Lord Adonis was killed by a wild boar, but we cannot talk about that for now. So did you find the pigs to be finicky eaters? think they eat everything, but I've spoken to, some people say they are very fiddly eater, I don't know if that's true. They don't like to eat certain things, they don't eat, if you bring them a bucket of scraps from your kitchen, they'll eat most of it pretty universally, but they don't eat citrus rinds, for example, they won't eat, you know, like if you squeeze a lemon into your drink and then throw the rind, throw the squeezed rind into the pig

bucket. They won't eat that. And they won't eat corn husks. But I've fed them oyster shells. They'll eat that. They eat bones. It takes them a little while to eat some of the bigger bones. I don't think they would eat like a beef femur just because maybe they can't get their mouth around it. But they definitely eat, obviously, poultry bones they can easily eat and then lamb bones and maybe field bones. Human bone. Human bones, yes. No, this is very interesting. I ask you because I've always had some idea similar to yours that I would go in Patagonia and I would grow their Iberico porks. You go all over Latinx America. For some reason, they did not import the Iberico pig, which when you ask them why, they say, oh, we don't have the oaks. But they don't need to eat just the oaks. And

And then the Mangalitsa pig will maintain the fat profile of the Iberico pig even if it does not eat acorn. So they could import that in Latin America, but they do not. They grow only industrial pig. So I thought I would have a luxury farm somewhere in Patagonia and I would grow Iberico pig and I grow fat-tailed sheep, I'd import them. And I had similar ice cream ideas that you say. I would take the fatty milk from the sheep, and then the maki berry, which is like blueberry but much tastier, it grow wild in that part of Patagonia. I would make ice creams with the sheep milk and the maki berry, and I thought I could export these to gourmet restaurant and gourmet people who enjoy such thing. It's very hard because Argentina has very strict export laws and so forth, but why more

people don't do this? Grow luxury good. Grow a lake with sturgeon. Is that hard to do? I don't know. I don't know about the sturgeon, but yeah, it's difficult to understand, but I was going to start talking about this earlier, but the cost of growing something is always the same. It's about the natural laws, the laws of physics and biology. And the question is how we apportion those costs. And nowadays it seems like everybody just wants to... The only goal is to get the human labor costs to be as low as possible. And in exchange for that, we're willing to pay enormous sums in pharmaceutical costs, costs to the land, we're willing to literally sell out the future in exchange for not having to do, like, it's not that farmers don't, I mean, farmers, farmers is an interesting

situation, I mean, like, because the average American farmer doesn't make his living from doing farming, he has a job in town, and he has, he's inherited land, and he sits on a tractor six weeks out of the year, and harvests corn, but it's not a way, you can't make a a living doing it. He was growing corn anyway. But it's just a matter of pride for him to keep his family's land in his family's name. That is, I think, the case for almost all American farmers and it's a point that is underemphasized and that is critical to understanding the American agricultural situation. But anyway, I'm trying to answer your question, which is why don't people do this? Well, it requires work and activity and vitality and I think That's what's missing. We would rather, we have an economic situation,

a cultural slash economic situation that has led people to prefer to simply, basically pay whatever it costs to not have to do work, or to not have to do physical labor. Yes. That's the root of the problem. Speaking of that, I know other frog, I will not say his online name, but he is like you, a gentleman farmer, in somewhere in Central America. I've met him, he is, you know, educated man, he speak ancient Greek better than I do. But he has ancestral family farms there. And he tell me, he visit temperate zone area and look at the farms in temperate zone areas in Europe or United States. And he say that nature is much more tame temperate zone, that people from temperate zone don't understand the work and struggle

you have to put in tropical farm when life is just overwhelming and try to get into everything to kill you. Yes, the vines strangle you. He's lost, since he was a boy, he's lost several dogs to snake bite. He's been bitten by snake. He tell me, you know, the sheep, I'm not going to ask you about the sheep. He told me the sheep are the stupidest animal and, of course, very hard to maintain in tropical environment. Their wool apparently grows indefinitely. It never stops growing, you know? Yes. Correct. But so, he tell me… You've seen the picture of the sheep that got stuck in a cave in New Zealand for like three years. Somehow it survived. But it was stuck in a cave and, you know, it was like a very funny picture. Have you seen this picture? No, I have not.

look like giant furball, but he say, you know, there's no comparison, so maybe this, you know, why people don't compare to that, they can say, I'm in temperate zone, I need to work less, the land is bountiful, it's not trying to kill me with killer centipede, and I will grow it very, but okay, I understand. I wanted to ask you, because this man I mentioned, He inherits family farm, but you chose to be a farmer, correct? You didn't grow up as a farmer, and that's very interesting. Would you mind asking why, how you chose this, how you come to this choice to be farmer? Sure. Well, I think, you know, similar to you and many other frogs and right wing people on our side of Twitter and the culture whatever and I think you know early on

in life growing up in the 90s and 2000s just had a profound sense of the meaninglessness of life you know a massive negative space yes that you know sort of, you know, was there and loomed in the background of my and everybody around me's life. And I kind of from a young age had an awareness that I had no interest in participating in perpetuating that scenario. And I, you know, for a while I thought I wanted to be a writer, a poet, et cetera, and I just, over time, came to realize that in order to cultivate meaning in one's own life, I think one has to get to the root of things, and experience life in a deeper, more fundamental way than what the sort of typical bug man conveyor belt has to offer young men and women these days, we were talking about the HR private sector

jobs program, a system that we all live under and that is sapping our bodily fluids, sapping and purifying our bodily fluids. I perceived this very early on and knew that I wanted nothing to do with it. I didn't know exactly what the alternative was, but I eventually came to realize that working with the land and communing with natural systems and with animals, etc. This was, at least for me personally, I'm not saying it's the only way, but for me personally it was the way to have a meaningful life. I think that's all there is to it, really, and I was fortunate to have access to land from family, etc. But did you come to this just by observing the modern world and thinking of the alternatives? Or was there any special book or something? Was there a literary inspiration perhaps for this?

I don't think so. I think I, you know, I read a pinko propaganda book. Have you read this book, Beth? No. I will never read this. Who is this? This is the first book that got me thinking about this sort of thing. You know, this is about a Colombian whoremonger and he falls in love at a young age. The girl rejects him and marries some, you know, doctor, fruitcake, whatever, and spends the rest of her life with him. So he basically goes around for 300 pages banging other women, and at the end the doctor dies and they get back together and they sail down the Magdalena River together. And they go look for sunken ship of Cortez gold. I think I later learned about Garcia Marquez's political persuasion, so I disavow this book completely now.

But back when I read it at the age of 13 or 14, it kind of got me, I think maybe this was the first literary inspiration, although it has nothing to do with farming. This changed my view of things in terms of what life is about. There's so much, I've used this word already so I cringe, I'm cringing, but there's so much inertia, especially, it's bizarre because you think about, for me, observing frog, frog Twitter, et cetera, other people, not necessarily just frog Twitter, but our kind of posters that we like on Twitter, this is sort of the spirit of the academe now dwells among us on Twitter and in a natural, sane world, all of us would have become academics and be doing interesting things. You've talked about this, I remember you talked about it with Stone Age Herbalists and other

friends like that. I'll finish, then you go ahead. And so we get led into this, we get seduced into this kind of world, and then because of who we are, our biological traits, it allures us from a theoretical perspective and then rejects us and expects us to go work, I don't know, in consulting or something like this, is arguably even worse, and so I just sort of saw this coming during high school and college and said that I, you know, no thank you, it's not for me, so that's why I decided to follow. No, this is good. I was going to say you read Garcia Marquez when you were 13. I read around that age, 13 I think, I read Plato Republic, and I realized the truth must be a fascist eugenic republic, a fascist eugenic military state is the answer.

And the means to that is eliminating your enemies. But that's for another time. But I want to actually ask you about this, because you mentioned my I.M. 1776 article. You didn't mention, though, my idea, you mentioned the honey, but my point about the honey is is that the honey will be, the apias will be green-robed monks who practice pre-Great Schism version of Christianity, and they'll be nomadic monks, and they'll offer the sacraments to the cowboys and milkmaids. But I think in terms of eugenics, I think another thing the government needs to be doing as promoting as aggressively as possible the religious monastic life, you know? Yes. Well, actually... Do you agree? Yes. In a way, I think so. I think so. It's a complicated subject because I was thinking the other day, this...

I know a man who is Assyrian, okay? Not Syrian, but with Assyrian, you know, with the AB4. And well, this is a longer subject. I don't know if people want to hear this now, but this man come from a culture, as you know, ruled the ancient Middle East. They, Machiavelli say... Nebuchadnezzar, yes. Yes, Machiavelli, well, there's Babylon. Is he Assyrian? Sorry, that's all right. But Machiavelli say, Virtu was first born among the Assyrians and then it kept moving west in successive ways to the Greeks, to the Romans, and so forth. And these people of military virtue and conquest, and they ended up losing their empire. And then, it's very interesting what happened, because these men of this empire, they want naturally to be conquerors, but they can't.

So rather than be, let's say, a taxpayer sheep for the Muslims who ended up ruling that area, I believe that the most manly amongst them became monks, and this exemplifies some way Nietzsche is saying, is that heronfolk, people of masters, either rules or it dies out. very direct way, I think, biological way by which this happens, which is the ones who would be normally generals, conquerors, and so forth, cannot conceive of life as a tax cow for somebody else, you know, so they become monks, you know, they cannot breathe under conditions of captivity, they become monks, and I think this is also the impetus behind And Buddhism, the step spirit, suddenly a man of the step, the Buddha, wakes up, he's alive in this shithole type of slum, slum existence, teeming life everywhere, and he

cannot take it. He says, I must leave, this is filth, you know, so he becomes the Buddha, a religion, you know. Maybe I don't describe this well. Maybe you don't agree with it, because I was going to ask you next precisely this question that you brought up. So, you know, I came to my views maybe around the same age you did, or at least had first glimmer of them, and it led me to become whatever people want to say, right-wing, secular, neo-pagan, I don't know what, I don't care what you call it, but you and also my gentleman farmer friend from Central America, and he also is a believing, I believe, I hope I don't misrepresent him, but I think he's a traditionalist Catholic. But you, if I may, I hope I'm not being indiscreet, you did not grow up Catholic, but you chose to convert to this.

And I'm very interested in this. People should know the recent debates that they may have seen online or occasionally maybe they've heard me attack so-called trad cats. I'm never attacking people like you or my friend from Central America and there are many people online who are allies of mine and of people like me and there's no conflict whatsoever between us. When I attacked so-called tradcats, I attacked fakers like Adrian Vermula, who chose for unexplained reasons to become a so-called Catholic in 2016, eight years after writing an article with Cass Sunstein about infiltration of extremist movements. And I think it was a cynical move, they promote very bad ideas, they promote mass immigration. This is why I don't like the Integralists and the TradCats.

Primarily, they promote mass immigration. That's my problem with them, and Vermulo is the worst of them. He, I think, is a complete cynical faker, and they chose Catholicism because they know that the swing voter in so many elections has been the upper Midwest white, right? Who are the Reagan Democrats? They were American ethnic Catholics, white ethnic Catholics. They've been the swing in every election since Nixon and so I think this very bad coterie, I call them the lavender boys in Washington, DC, Vermula, Ross Douthat, the lesser… Amari. Yeah, well, Amari too, yeah, and then Amari is the chaiwala, but then there are Ross Douthat clones, they all look the same, the lesser fats among them, and I consider them to be

a bunch of very cynical, possibly repressed pedos, I don't want to get into that, but it is those people who I'm attacking and their apes online, people who follow that, I just wanted to explain to audience, I'm not attacking genuine traditionalists like you or others who and were friends. So I just wanted to ask you about the thread life. I don't know if you're comfortable, I feel bad asking you, but are you comfortable getting a bit more into what led you to the thread life and religion, if I may ask you? Yes, I think, well, you know, well, just to say, so when I, to the extent I identify as traditional, it's simply that I have found a great, great spiritual food in the traditional Latin mass. And you know, I enjoy, I accept traditional Catholic morality, questions of,

you know, sexual morality, cultural morality, etc. But I think, you know, I think, I think maybe, maybe one of the difficulties is, you know, for example, Vermula, you know, he, these guys are, They're ultra-monetists, which basically means that they believe that the highest possible Christian virtue is obedience, obedience to Rome, to the Holy Father. But if you go to any traditional Latin Mass parish and ask them how they feel about Pope Francis, you'll get a different response, if you know what I mean. I think it's a little bit of a conflation to call Vermula and his gang Travkaths. I don't think they go to Latin Mass because the Pope, you know, in the 60s said you can't go to the, well you shouldn't go to Latin Mass anymore, now you have to go to this made

up new thing that, you know, we invented with a bunch of Protestants in a committee, you know. So, so, this is, this, I just want to say that, you know, I accept the label of traditional Catholic in the sense that the Latin mass has meant a great deal to me spiritually. I want to say the reason that I think, to put it in context maybe to listeners who haven't found that, I think what inspires me is if you go to Notre Dame or any amazing European medieval cathedral that was built a thousand years ago and still standing and is in perfect proportion and is just breathtaking to behold as the millions or billions of dollars of tourist money that they generate every year testifies to. What inspired this?

Or if you listen to sacred music, Gregorian chant, things like this, very beautiful Christian music. What inspired this? It's not as though what passes for Christianity now would do the same thing. Please allow me to read a passage from Song of Roland. I think the audience will enjoy this. This is from Stanza, let's see, 200, 266. Yes, he is reading now. Yes, I am reading now. I am reading now. Passes the day. The darkness has grown deep. But all the stars burn and the moon shines clear. And Zaragoza is in the emperor's keep. The emperor is Charlemagne. And Zaragoza is in the emperor's keep. A thousand francs he bids seek through the streets. The synagogues and the mahoumaries, with iron mauls and axes which they wield, they break

the idols and all the imageries, so there remain no fraud nor falsity. That king fears God, and would do his service. On water, then, bishops, their blessings speak, and pagans bring into the baptistry, if any Charles with contradiction meet, then hanged or burned or slaughtered shall he be. Five-score thousand and more are thus redeemed, very Christians. save alone the queen, to France the deuce goes in captivity, by love the king will her conversion seek." Okay, so is this Bronze Age mindset? I don't know. This seems, you know, so the point is, what is this Christianity, and how did it fuel the greatness of the West, and to what extent did it fuel it, and you know, what inspired them to build these cathedrals?

I was just curious about this and I wanted to know and it led me to first Rome and Catholicism and then I realized just through research and meeting friends online etc. that there's a new mass and that you can still have access to the old one and if you go to it and open your heart to it, let's say, you may experience a profound spiritual experience and that's That's what happened for me. So this is why, long and short of it, without giving too many details, and it connects also to my life experience with farming, which is just, you know, I think when I first started I assumed that I would have ample inspiration or motivation from the desire to maintain my family's land, to restore it to health, it was in very bad shape when I first took it over.

better now, but this sort of motivation, earthly kind of motivation. I was confronted with an enormous amount of physical work that I had to do. This is now almost ten years ago, and I just kind of fell on my knees not knowing how I could possibly actually do this. Do you need slaves? I can get you a slave someday. Yes, yes. Please. I mean, we need to, yes, this would be good, but yes, the point I'm making is just, you know, where does, you've seen the movie Chariots of Fire, you know, where does the power come from to see the race through to its end? Yes. So, from within. Yes. So, this kind of, but what's the source? What's the source of the spiritual energy? And this This is what set me on, part of what set me on this path, so I hope this explains it. Yes, it does.

It's very interesting. I hope it's not too personal a question I asked, but yes, I think there's no fundamental, there's beautiful passage from Song of Roland and shows, I think that and many other things we've talked about and show there's no fundamental conflict, at least for now. we win, but there is no fundamental conflict between my views and those of true traditional Catholic and so forth. I just think this whole religious versus secular – I mean, that's what Vermula and these guys are trying to do, to get Protestant, to fight Catholic, to get religious, to fight secular, it's to play on the wedge issues on the right wing and break it apart, and I am against this. And recently I started to talk against this because I see – and I'm not talking about

you or other friends – but I see on the faith lords, the commentators, people who I know were not religious a year or two ago, and it's fine if they convert, but then to go around saying, did you pray today? The only path is through religion. If you don't have religion, you are our enemy. As if these people, not just like Vermula, but all the religious legal charities that help migrants, as if they're on your side. Anyway, this is a longer talk. Let me, may I say, yes, you know, first of all, Christ says when you pray, do not be like the Pharisees and hypocrites who pray out loud in the temple trying to, you know, so that everyone can see them, you have to go into your room and close the door and kneel down.

So, you know, whenever anyone does this online, you can be certain that it's, you know, it's pageantry. The other thing I wanted to say… William, look at what happened on this show. I had to coax it out of you and I know people who grew up traditional Catholic and they They say they are confused by the E, the electronic Catholics, that they act like, they behave like nobody they've known in real life. It's a fake online thing. I don't know. Yeah, it's not, you will not encounter someone like this if you go to SSPX or FSSP or other similar type parish, you know. These are good, humble, simple, not simple, but normal people who are devoted to Christ and to Our Lady, and that's it. There's nothing to do with any of this online stuff. Well, they don't have to be humble, but it's just online.

People who do this, next year they could be doing a satru. You know what I'm saying? The year after that they do Orthodoxy. The year after, I've known crazy people online for well over 10 years, and there was this guy, one year he's a Nazi, the next year he's Westboro Baptist Church, no, I'm not making this up, he's a real guy, I mean, one year he's a pagan, the next year he becomes some weird sect of Orthodox, it's weird, so, it's just online, people need to understand, but look, we don't need to talk that, let me make one more, I just want to respond to one more thing you said which is the vermula faction trying to sow division basically and well sorry go on yeah yes yes and i agree with this and and you know i think this is a fundamentally uh un-christian

uh way of doing things the christian advantage is is is that it's a philosophy uh in addition to you know a mythology and a faith um to put it to put it vulgarly i hope i don't upset my my uh my christian uh brothers and sisters but um the what what christianity and well monotheism i guess judaism and islam say this too but i think christianity says it better than those two uh which is is just that you know um you you may you like you may believe some you may have some sort of belief system or you may worship uh something else but whatever you know our god isn't a a character in a story, our God is the source of all being, you know, like the soul source. And so, when you begin with God as sort of a philosophical concept or idea like that,

and then he becomes personified later when he enters into time and space at a specific moment in time, which is another fundamentally and uniquely Christian claim, then you have a persuasive and seductive argument, but it's impossible for me to imagine how people were converted to Christianity other than through this argument, which is that whatever it is that you worship was created by what we're talking about. So you're worshipping a derivative, why not worship the real thing? And so I think that there's a sort of a Catholic and lowercase c sense, a unifying message there that should be capitalized on by good faith actors who are trying to make the world better on our side of the political, cultural spectrum. Yes. Well, very good. Look, I don't want to keep you much more.

We've had a long show. I agree with what you've said. I want to ask you in closing, you said you are reading Dante lately. Is this true? Yes, yes, yes. I'm actually trying to, I don't speak Florentine, but I'm trying to translate the whole Divine Comedy. I hope to publish it maybe later this year. I've finished, basically finished the Inferno, but the Purgatory and the Paradiso are much more challenging. But yes, this is another example of, if you read Dante, you'll find similar points to be made about what, the message from Song of Roland, in Dante it's a similar vibe, you know, it's about, you know, the two words that come up in the Italian slash Florentine all the time are virtu, obviously, you know virtu in the Machiavellian sense, virtu, which

is true, you know, maybe the English troth, the old English troth would be a good translation for this, like loyalty and being true to your word, et cetera, these things. These are the two things that matter the most. And it's not insignificant that the worst sin, the lowest circle of hell, is reserved for people who break their oaths and betray. And when we say that Jesus Christ is the truth, this is what we're talking about. And so that's a violation of the Christian order in that sense. And then the worst sin is vilta, which is translated as cowardice. But in my translation, I've been translating it as weakness. It comes actually from an Indo-European word. I think vilius, which means cheapness, like ease of being bought off, is essentially what I remember.

I'm not a cunning linguist, but this is what I remember reading when I was researching the origins of this word. So, you know, these are all very interesting things, and in order to understand, as I was talking about earlier, understand what Christianity really was, really is still, and what it could be again. So, yes. Yes, this very nice, I just saw online, again, argument break out over there were these leftist type Catholics saying that people should not try to make Christianity manly, because that's the corruption of Christianity. But without getting into why they're wrong, I think what you are doing, what other friends are doing, is precisely that, recovering the manly nature of Christianity. And there's another aspect, well, maybe next time you come we talk about Dante, but there's

another aspect, not just the moral one in Dante, but I've heard it be referred to as the imperial gospel in a way. Dante is very strong for idea of a secular world emperor, is he not? Because Jesus is born in the time of Augustus and Dante sees much significance in that. No, there's a continuity, and the fact that Virgil is his guide, there was much devotion to the fourth eclogue, which is understood to foretell that a savior will be born of a virgin. This is a poem by Virgil, and you know better than me about, but I think 40 BC, 40 years before Christ was born, and this sort of prophecy. and other medieval Catholics believed that this was prophesying Christ from Rome. In the first canto, there's a very interesting passage at the end that is somewhat esoteric

now, but essentially Dante elaborates about the return of the greyhound, the Italian dog. You can read it either as the second coming or as the return of the great Holy Roman Emperor. It's both, okay? For Dante, Christianity and traditional Catholicism in general, the earthly politics and spiritual life are inseparable, which is quite an interesting concept. Obviously, you know, with the influence of Protestantism, etc., these two things have been separated. But what is this claim really? It's an interesting thing to explore. I don't think we have time now, but maybe next time. But part of it is he did not believe in the rule of priests, but of a great emperor and a man of power. Yes, yes. So the conflict between the Gelfs and the Gibleans, one side was for the Pope, who was,

you know, the papacy was, Vatican was becoming deeply corrupted at the time and the other side was for the Holy Roman Emperor. And yes, Dante was with the Emperor. Yes, he was with the men of bronze. But very good. Yes. William, I've kept you a long time. I hope you, it was, I hope you enjoy. I hope audience, I think audience like. Yes. Very good. But can I ask you one last question? Yes. Because I think you're the only man alive who knows the answer to this. Yes. Yes. You're of course familiar with maybe Pretentious Sommelier. You can claim that he can discern the valley and year of any bottle of wine without reading the label. Or maybe you've met an auto mechanic who can sniff the oil on a motor oil dipstick and tell you the viscosity. But is this possible, is the same thing possible

to do with ethnicity of a girl and her bodily fluids? Is this, do you know? Yes, it is possible, and in fact, this is how my favorite probiotic, gastrus, it's also called as fortis, this is how it was discovered. It's a certain breed of the lactobacillus reuteri. People can look this up, and it was isolated from the breast milk of a Peruvian woman in the Andes. No, I'm not joking. And I've always wondered how did these guys know to look into this obscure village of a Peruvian woman. And the answer is I believe that some men, very much like my hornmonger friend who I hope someday will come on show, he had been sampling and he found this woman or this community and it made him feel much better and they found a perfect probiotic, a sfortis. Yes.

Be a guy, I should pay me. I should get, what is it called? Agent, not agent. What is it called? Representative. Influencer. Yeah, influencer. Yeah, very good. William, it's been a pleasure to talk to you and I hope you will receive me at your farm some day and you will make me steaks. I do not like steak so much. I like the fatty part of the cow, the less... We'll make you, we'll slice you some brisket fat and we will render this slightly for you until it's crispy. Barbecue brisket is the top of the American cooking tradition, I believe. Yes, I believe this, too. Very good, William. Let's talk soon. It's good to have you on the show. Thank you. See you next time. Bye.